0:34 What is Burnout

2:28 Burnout in the Workplace

3:49 Economic Impact of Burnout

5:57 The Great Resignation

7:59 The Covid Experience

11:20 Toughen Up

13:17 Employers Are Doing Wrong

Michelle Martin:
From a crisis of democracy to a crisis in the workplace — as the pandemic eases in some parts of the world, we’re seeing what’s being called The Great Resignation. Since April, over 20 million people in the U.S. have quit their jobs according to federal statistics. Our next guest, Jennifer Moss, explains this phenomenon in her new book The Burnout Epidemic. Here she is speaking with me about the causes, and why this is a cultural — not an individual — problem.

What is burnout?

Jennifer Moss:
In 2019, the World Health Organization officially identified burnout as a workplace phenomenon — stress that’s left unmanaged at work. That was an important milestone because for years, people misunderstood it as a purely personal issue.
Burnout shows up in three key ways:

1. Exhaustion: Feeling depleted, unmotivated, and disconnected from things that once brought you joy — even small daily tasks feel like walking through cement.

2. Disengagement: An emotional distance from your work, where you start to question your competence or contribution.

3. Cynicism: This is the biggest red flag — when you feel hopeless or powerless, like nothing will ever change. That fatalistic mindset is a clear warning that you’re approaching a breaking point.

Burnout in the workplace

Michelle Martin:
You emphasize that burnout should be seen as a workplace issue, not just a personal one. Why is that so important?

Jennifer Moss:
Because the only way to solve burnout is through an ecosystem approach. We need policies at every level — government, organizational, cultural. You can’t fix burnout through self-care when the root causes are structural: unmanageable workloads, lack of psychological safety, and systemic inequities.
When we treat burnout like a personal failure, we shift responsibility away from employers and society. This isn’t about bubble baths and yoga — it’s about fixing systems that make people sick.

The economic impact of burnout

Michelle Martin:
You frame burnout as not just a workplace issue but a serious economic problem. Why?

Jennifer Moss:
Because the ripple effects are massive. Burnout disproportionately affects women and vulnerable groups — the pandemic drove many women out of the workforce due to inadequate caregiving policies and inequitable parental leave.
Women’s unpaid labor jumped from four hours per week to around 20. The result? Economists project that long-term female unemployment could cost the global economy over one trillion dollars in the next decade.
In healthcare, burned-out nurses are leaving in droves, leading to staffing shortages and hospital closures. And globally, overwork kills 2.8 million people a year. These are systemic issues with human and financial costs we can’t ignore.

The Great Resignation

Michelle Martin:
Millions of people are quitting their jobs. Is burnout driving this?

Jennifer Moss:
Absolutely. Data backs that up. A Microsoft study of 30,000 employees found that only 4% cited compensation as their reason for leaving — the rest pointed to unsustainable workloads and lack of mental-health support.
Younger workers are especially burned out. Many started jobs during the pandemic, never met their teams or managers in person, and now feel isolated and stalled in their careers.
After two years of confronting our own mortality, people are re-evaluating what matters. If work is making us unwell, we’re choosing to walk away.

The COVID experience

Michelle Martin:
You’ve done new research into how COVID affected burnout. What did you find?

Jennifer Moss:
We collected data from 46 countries, both quantitative and qualitative.

• 85% said their well-being declined during the pandemic.

• Workloads spiked dramatically.

• 67% of people who felt unable to discuss mental health at work reported being frequently or severely burned out.
  Women were hit hardest, and 89% said their work-life balance had worsened. Only 2% rated their well-being as “excellent.”
  Gen Z and Millennials reported record levels of loneliness — 74% said they felt the loneliest they’d ever been. Burnout was already a crisis, and COVID just magnified it.

“Toughen up” — a generational divide

Michelle Martin:
Some people say today’s workers are too soft — that older generations worked just as hard without complaining. How do you respond?

Jennifer Moss:
I understand that reaction. Expectations do differ by generation. Older workers often have more agency and flexibility, while younger workers are still fighting for it.
But this isn’t about being soft — it’s about being human. For decades, companies neglected well-being, and now we’re seeing a correction. We need a balance — flexibility and empathy, yes, but also collaboration and accountability.
This is a moment for honest reflection: some employers have behaved badly for too long, and people are demanding better.

What employers are doing wrong

Michelle Martin:
So what are employers getting wrong?

Jennifer Moss:
Too many confuse burnout prevention with wellness perks. You can’t fix systemic issues with pizza parties or “mindfulness Fridays.”
Giving employees a week off won’t matter if they come back to the same 80-hour workloads. Real solutions come from setting boundaries, creating right-to-disconnect policies, and ensuring workloads are manageable and fair.
Recovery isn’t about downtime — it’s about redesigning work so people don’t need to recover in the first place.

What needs to happen next

Michelle Martin:
What can organizations do now to address this crisis?

Jennifer Moss:
We need action at every level. Governments can lead with policy — like Ontario’s “Right to Disconnect” law. Leaders can make a difference through empathy, consistent communication, and normalizing conversations about mental health.
It’s about human-centered leadership — understanding that trust, fairness, and equity are as essential as profit. When people feel safe and valued, productivity follows.
These are solvable problems — if we focus on the root causes and act with compassion.

Michelle Martin:
Jennifer Moss, thank you so much for joining us.

Jennifer Moss:
Thank you — it was a great conversation.